Article: Isaiah 19:10 Ponds for Fish by Will Kinney

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Isaiah 19:10 "all that make sluices and ponds for fish."

Bible Critic James White posted this example at one of the Bible clubs I belong to. He attempts to prove some kind of an error in the King James Bible by trying to tell us that a particular word came from the Latin Vulgate rather than from the Hebrew texts. This is blatant hypocrisy on the part of Mr. White in that he now works for the NASB committee and his own NASB UNDOUBTEDLY OFTEN REJECTS the clear Hebrew readings. This can easily be proven by dozens of clear examples. Here they are if you care to see them.

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/NIVapos.html

and

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/NIVapos2.html

In spite of all these undeniable examples of the deficiencies of the NASB, NIV, RSV, ESV, Holman Standard and others, James White continues his crusade to prove that there is no such thing as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible in any language on this earth today, and so he writes:

Isaiah 19:10 And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish. (KJV)

Isaiah 19:10 And its foundations will be broken. All who make wages will be troubled of soul. (NKJ)

Isaiah 19:10 And the pillars of Egypt will be crushed; All the hired laborers will be grieved in soul. (NASB)

Isaiah 19:10 The workers in cloth will be dejected, and all the wage earners will be sick at heart. (NIV)

Mr. White then comments: "Quite a range of translations, but the most obvious difference is that the KJV has "fish," following Jerome and the Latin Vulgate, rather than the Hebrew text. Is it your contention, sir, that "fish" is the inspired reading, and that it was maintained in the Latin Vulgate, while the Hebrew text was corrupted?" James White

My answer to Mr. James "No Bible is inerrant" White:

Let's compare several versions and see if we can determine whether the King James Bible reading comes from the Latin Vulage, as Mr. White asserts in no uncertain terms, or if it comes from a legitimate interpretation of the Hebrew text.

KJB - "And THEY SHALL BE BROKEN IN THE PURPOSES THEREOF, ALL THAT MAKE SLUICES AND PONDS FOR FISH."

This is also the reading of the Wycliffe Bible 1395, the Bishop's Bible 1568, Webster's 1833 translation, the KJV 21st Century, the Third Millenium Bible, and the 1950 Douay Version. Not only do these English translations render the Hebrew phrase found here as "fishes" but so also do the Spanish Reina Valera versions of 1909, 1960 and 1995. Both the 1569 version and the 1999 Spanish Sagradas Escrituras (Holy Scriptures) also reads as does the King James Bible. They say: "porque todas sus redes serán rotas; y se entristecerán todos los que hacen viveros para PECES." - FISH. If you don't know Spanish, you might recognize the similarity to Pices, or the sign of the fish.

Likewise the 2004 Reina Valera Gomez translation reads like the King James Bible with: "porque todas sus redes serán rotas: y se entristecerán todos los que hacen viveros para peces."

The Modern Greek translation is similar to the King James Bible in that it says: "all who make gain from FISH ponds." (ixthuotropheioon)

Now, let's take a look at the wide variety of "reliable translations" found in the multitude of conflicting, more modern versions that men like James White recommend we use instead of that old fashioned King James.

NKJV - " And ITS FOUNDATIONS will be broken. ALL WHO MAKE WAGES WILL BE TROUBLED OF SOUL.

NASB - "And THE PILLARS OF EGYPT will be crushed. All the HIRED LABORERS will be grieved in soul.

NIV - "The WORKERS OF CLOTH WILL BE DEJECTED, and all WAGE EARNERS WILL BE SICK AT HEART.

The 2001 ESV - "THOSE WHO ARE THE PILLARS of the land will be crushed, and all who work for pay will be grieved."

NRSV 1989 - "Its WEAVERS will be dismayed, and all who work for wages will be grieved.

The 2001 Easy to Read Version - "The PEOPLE THAT MAKE DAMS TO SAVE WATER will have no work, so they will be sad."

Lamsa's 1933 translation of the Syriac - "And all those WHO MAKE STRONG DRINK FOR THE DRINKING OF THE PEOPLE shall be humiliated."

Geneva Bible 1599 - "For their nets shall be broken, and all THEY THAT MAKE PONDS shall be heavy in heart."

Bible in Basic English 1961 actually omits words reading: "And the MAKERS OF TWISTED THREAD will be crushed, and those who ... will be sad in heart."

The 1970 New English Bible - "Egypt's SPINNERS shall be downcast, and ALL HER ARTISANS sick at heart."

See how true the saying by men like James White is who tell us by reading and comparing a variety of translations we can clear things up?

Now let's see what some other Bible commentators, who are not KJB onlies, have to say.

Adam Clarke - All that make sluices and ponds for fish-"All that make a gain of pools for fish." This obscure line is rendered by different interpreters in very different manners. I translate gain, and which some take for nets or inclosures, the Septuagint is "And all THEY THAT MAKE BARLEY WINE shall mourn, and be grieved in soul."

Jamieson, Faussett & Brown - all that make sluices, —"makers of dams," made to confine the waters which overflow from the Nile in artificial FISH-ponds [HORSLEY]. "Makers of gain," that is, the common people who have to earn their livelihood, as opposed to the "nobles" previously [MAURER].

John Gill - "All that make sluices and ponds for fish; or, "all that make an enclosure of ponds of soul" ; or for delight and pleasure; that is, not only such shall be broken in their purposes, ashamed and confounded, and be dispirited, mourn and lament, whose business and employment it is to catch FISH (caps are mine), or make nets for that end, and get their livelihood thereby; but even such who enclose a confluence of water, and make FISH ponds in their fields and gardens for their pleasure, will be disappointed; for their waters there will be dried up, and the FISH die, as well as in the common rivers."

John Wesley tersely comments on this verse saying: "They shall lose their hopes; for the FISHES in them shall die for want of water."

John Calvin comments on Isaiah 19:10 saying: "Where FISHES are very abundant, they are also preserved in pools and ponds; because the fishers would otherwise be constrained to sell them at a very low price. Besides, when they throw a net, they are not always successful. He therefore follows out the same subject, “It will not be possible either to take or to preserve FISHES. Pools will be of no use.”

On the other hand, Bible critic James White says: "Quite a range of translations, but the most obvious difference is that the KJV has "fish," following Jerome and the Latin Vulgate, rather than the Hebrew text."

Mr. White is mistaken in his understanding. The word renderd "fish" in the KJB (nephesh) has a great variety of meanings even in the NASB, NIV and other modern versions.

For example, some of the meanings given in the NASB for this same Hebrew word include "a living being, a life, appetite, body, breath, corpse, CREATURE, desire, heart, feelings, hunger, men, mind, number, passion, people, soul, person, slave, strength, thirst, throat, will and wish".

Likewise the NIV renders this same word as "life, soul, heart, people, appetite, CREATURES, spirit, body, corpse, needs, desires, hunger, members, being, feel, greed, perfume, slave, throats, wishes and zeal." The Hebrew word can have a great variety of meanings depending on the context.

The context is clearly talking about FISH - Verse 19:8 reads: "The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish." Then we have verse 10 "And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for FISH." Once the context is determined to refer to "sluices and ponds", we then can reasonably conclude that the creatures which live in the ponds are FISH.

As has been shown, other Bible commentators have expressed the reading of the King James Bible as being derived from the Hebrew text itself, and not from the Latin.

The Latin Vulgate has nothing to do with how the King James Bible translates the text, but rather they translated the Latin Bibles directly from the Hebrew text in this place. It is a matter of different interpretations and understanding; not a difference of the Hebrew versus the Latin texts. If the Latin bibles say "Christ died for the ungodly" are we to claim they got it wrong? I trow not. By the way, both the Latin of 425 A.D. and Jerome's earlier Latin translation of 385 A.D. both refer to the FISH in the ponds. They got it right way back then even when today's scholars can't agree even among themselves what the verse might mean.

Again, not only does the King James Bible render this word as "fish" but so also do the Spanish Reina Valera of 1909, 1960 and 1995; Las Sagradas Escrituras of 1569 and 1999, the 2004 Reina Valera Gomez, the Douay version 1950, Wycliffe 1395, Bishops' Bible 1568, Webster's 1833 translation, the Modern Greek translation, the 1994 KJV 21st Century, and the 1998 Third Millenium Bible.

Will Kinney

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List of New Testament Papyri

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List of New Testament uncials

01 · 02 · 03 · 04 · 05 · 06 · 07 · 08 · 09 · 010 · 011 · 012 · 013 · 014 · 015 · 016 · 017 · 018 · 019 · 020 · 021 · 022 · 023 · 024 · 025 · 026 · 027 · 028 · 029 · 030 · 031 · 032 · 033 · 034 · 035 · 036 · 037 · 038 · 039 · 040 · 041 · 042 · 043 · 044 · 045 · 046 · 047 · 048 · 049 · 050 · 051 · 052 · 053 · 054 · 055 · 056 · 057 · 058 · 059 · 060 · 061 · 062 · 063 · 064 · 065 · 066 · 067 · 068 · 069 · 070 · 071 · 072 · 073 · 074 · 075 · 076 · 077 · 078 · 079 · 080 · 081 · 082 · 083 · 084 · 085 · 086 · 087 · 088 · 089 · 090 · 091 · 092 · 093 · 094 · 095 · 096 · 097 · 098 · 099 · 0100 · 0101 · 0102 · 0103 · 0104 · 0105 · 0106 · 0107 · 0108 · 0109 · 0110 · 0111 · 0112 · 0113 · 0114 · 0115 · 0116 · 0117 · 0118 · 0119 · 0120 · 0121 · 0122 · 0123 · 0124 · 0125 · 0126 · 0127 · 0128 · 0129 · 0130 · 0131 · 0132 · 0134 · 0135 · 0136 · 0137 · 0138 · 0139 · 0140 · 0141 · 0142 · 0143 · 0144 · 0145 · 0146 · 0147 · 0148 · 0149 · 0150 · 0151 · 0152 · 0153 · 0154 · 0155 · 0156 · 0157 · 0158 · 0159 · 0160 · 0161 · 0162 · 0163 · 0164 · 0165 · 0166 · 0167 · 0168 · 0169 · 0170 · 0171 · 0172 · 0173 · 0174 · 0175 · 0176 · 0177 · 0178 · 0179 · 0180 · 0181 · 0182 · 0183 · 0184 · 0185 · 0186 · 0187 · 0188 · 0189 · 0190 · 0191 · 0192 · 0193 · 0194 · 0195 · 0196 · 0197 · 0198 · 0199 · 0200 · 0201 · 0202 · 0203 · 0204 · 0205 · 0206 · 0207 · 0208 · 0209 · 0210 · 0211 · 0212 · 0213 · 0214 · 0215 · 0216 · 0217 · 0218 · 0219 · 0220 · 0221 · 0222 · 0223 · 0224 · 0225 · 0226 · 0227 · 0228 · 0229 · 0230 · 0231 · 0232 · 0234 · 0235 · 0236 · 0237 · 0238 · 0239 · 0240 · 0241 · 0242 · 0243 · 0244 · 0245 · 0246 · 0247 · 0248 · 0249 · 0250 · 0251 · 0252 · 0253 · 0254 · 0255 · 0256 · 0257 · 0258 · 0259 · 0260 · 0261 · 0262 · 0263 · 0264 · 0265 · 0266 · 0267 · 0268 · 0269 · 0270 · 0271 · 0272 · 0273 · 0274 · 0275 · 0276 · 0277 · 0278 · 0279 · 0280 · 0281 · 0282 · 0283 · 0284 · 0285 · 0286 · 0287 · 0288 · 0289 · 0290 · 0291 · 0292 · 0293 · 0294 · 0295 · 0296 · 0297 · 0298 · 0299 · 0300 · 0301 · 0302 · 0303 · 0304 · 0305 · 0306 · 0307 · 0308 · 0309 · 0310 · 0311 · 0312 · 0313 · 0314 · 0315 · 0316 · 0317 · 0318 · 0319 · 0320 · 0321 · 0322 · 0323 ·


List of New Testament lectionaries

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 25b · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50 · 51 · 52 · 53 · 54 · 55 · 56 · 57 · 58 · 59 · 60 · 61 · 62 · 63 · 64 · 65 · 66 · 67 · 68 · 69 · 70 · 71 · 72 · 73 · 74 · 75 · 76 · 77 · 78 · 79 · 80 · 81 · 82 · 83 · 84 · 85 · 86 · 87 · 88 · 89 · 90 · 91 · 92 · 93 · 94 · 95 · 96 · 97 · 98 · 99 · 100 · 101 · 102 · 103 · 104 · 105 · 106 · 107 · 108 · 109 · 110 · 111 · 112 · 113 · 114 · 115 · 116 · 117 · 118 · 119 · 120 · 121 · 122 · 123 · 124 · 125 · 126 · 127 · 128 · 129 · 130 · 131 · 132 · 133 · 134 · 135 · 136 · 137 · 138 · 139 · 140 · 141 · 142 · 143 · 144 · 145 · 146 · 147 · 148 · 149 · 150 · 151 · 152 · 153 · 154 · 155 · 156 · 157 · 158 · 159 · 160 · 161 · 162 · 163 · 164 · 165 · 166 · 167 · 168 · 169 · 170 · 171 · 172 · 173 · 174 · 175 · 176 · 177 · 178 · 179 · 180 · 181 · 182 · 183 · 184 · 185 · 186 · 187 · 188 · 189 · 190 · 191 · 192 · 193 · 194 · 195 · 196 · 197 · 198 · 199 · 200 · 201 · 202 · 203 · 204 · 205 · 206a · 206b · 207 · 208 · 209 · 210 · 211 · 212 · 213 · 214 · 215 · 216 · 217 · 218 · 219 · 220 · 221 · 222 · 223 · 224 · 225 · 226 · 227 · 228 · 229 · 230 · 231 · 232 · 233 · 234 · 235 · 236 · 237 · 238 · 239 · 240 · 241 · 242 · 243 · 244 · 245 · 246 · 247 · 248 · 249 · 250 · 251 · 252 · 253 · 254 · 255 · 256 · 257 · 258 · 259 · 260 · 261 · 262 · 263 · 264 · 265 · 266 · 267 · 268 · 269 · 270 · 271 · 272 · 273 · 274 · 275 · 276 · 277 · 278 · 279 · 280 · 281 · 282 · 283 · 284 · 285 · 286 · 287 · 288 · 289 · 290 · 291 · 292 · 293 · 294 · 295 · 296 · 297 · 298 · 299 · 300 · 301 · 302 · 303 · 304 · 305 · 306 · 307 · 308 · 309 · 310 · 311 · 312 · 313 · 314 · 315 · 316 · 317 · 318 · 319 · 320 · 321 · 322 · 323 · 324 · 325 · 326 · 327 · 328 · 329 · 330 · 331 · 332 · 368 · 449 · 451 · 501 · 502 · 542 · 560 · 561 · 562 · 563 · 564 · 648 · 649 · 809 · 965 · 1033 · 1358 · 1386 · 1491 · 1423 · 1561 · 1575 · 1598 · 1599 · 1602 · 1604 · 1614 · 1619 · 1623 · 1637 · 1681 · 1682 · 1683 · 1684 · 1685 · 1686 · 1691 · 1813 · 1839 · 1965 · 1966 · 1967 · 2005 · 2137 · 2138 · 2139 · 2140 · 2141 · 2142 · 2143 · 2144 · 2145 · 2164 · 2208 · 2210 · 2211 · 2260 · 2261 · 2263 · 2264 · 2265 · 2266 · 2267 · 2276 · 2307 · 2321 · 2352 · 2404 · 2405 · 2406 · 2411 · 2412 ·



New book available with irrefutable evidence for the reading in the TR and KJV.
Revelation 16:5 book
Revelation 16:5 and the Triadic Declaration - A defense of the reading of “shalt be” in the Authorized Version

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