Isaiah 65:11

From Textus Receptus

ספר ישעיהו 65:11

וְאַתֶּם֙ עֹזְבֵ֣י יְהוָ֔ה הַשְּׁכֵחִ֖ים אֶת־הַ֣ר קָדְשִׁ֑י הַֽעֹרְכִ֤ים לַגַּד֙ שֻׁלְחָ֔ן וְהַֽמְמַלְאִ֖ים לַמְנִ֥י מִמְסָֽךְ׃

Isaiah 65:11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

(King James Version, Pure Cambridge Edition)

Commentary

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

Marginal Notes in the 1611

Isaiah 65:11 in the 1611 King James Version

troop: Or, Gad

number: Or, Meni

KJV Today

“Troop/number” or “Fortune (Gad)/Destiny (Meni)” in Isaiah 65:11? "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number." (Isaiah 65:11, KJV)

Author James R. White in The King James Only Controversy criticizes the KJV rendering at Isaiah 65:11, saying:

The NKJV transliterates the Hebrew terms Gad and Meni, which were Babylonian or Syrian gods-of fortune and of destiny, respectively. Isaiah is upbraiding the people for engaging in idolatrous worship of Gad and Meni. That's a fairly long way from "that troop" and "that number"! (The King James Version Only Controversy, (Bethany House Publishers: Bloomington, Minnesota, 2009), p. 282).

In the margin the KJV translators provided the notes, “Or, Gad” and “Or, Meni” (words starting with upper case letters) so the translators clearly knew that these were proper nouns. Gad and Meni were indeed the names of the Pagan gods of fortune and destiny, but the names literally mean "troop" and "number". "גּד" (Gad) is matched with Strong's H1408 but it is the same word as H1410 which means "troop" (Brown, Driver, Briggs Lexicon). "מני" (Meni) is derived from "מנה" (manah) which means "to count, reckon, number, assign, tell, appoint, prepare" (Brown, Driver, Briggs Lexicon). By translating these names as “troop” and “number”, the pun in Hebrew becomes apparent. The passage refers to the names of two deities, Gad and Meni, but the thrust of the passage is that the Israelites had opted for polytheism (“that troop” and “that number”) in defiance to their one God. John Wesley shared this interpretation, commenting on the verse saying, "That troop - The idols of the ten tribes, and of the Assyrians, were a troop, where as the God of Israel was one God.... Number - The multitude of their idols" (John Wesley's Notes on the Bible). Unfortunately, this brilliant pun is lost in the NASB, ESV, NIV, etc.

Will Kinney

Isaiah 65:11 KJB - "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for THAT TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto THAT NUMBER."

Troop, Number, Fortune, Destiny, Gad, Meni, the Devil, Fortune tellers, bowls, Jupiter, the Planets?

A fellow KJB believer writes -“I was listening to a man named Ken Peters and he made this comment: That Isaiah 65:11 in the KJV was mis-translated: He said instead of troop and number it should say Gad and mene. Not Gad the troop of the the Israelites but Gad the Babylonian god of prosperity and destiny.”

So let's see if there is any merit to what our Bible Corrector, Ken Peters, says. It should first be noted that lots of Bible translators disagree with Mr. Peters, who no doubt, himself does not believe that ANY Bible in any language is or ever was the complete and inerrant words of God. What we have going on today is that every man seems to think he is an expert, and it's Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism gone to seed. Let's take a closer look at this passage.

Isaiah 65:11 KJB - "But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for THAT TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto THAT NUMBER."

ESV, NIV, NASB - "But you who forsake the LORD, who forget my holy mountain, who set a table for FORTUNE and fill cups for DESTINY." ESV 2011.

Ooops. No "Gad" and "meme". It looks like not everybody agrees with how Mr. Rogers thinks the verse should be translated.

NKJV - "But you are those who forsake the LORD, Who forget My holy mountain, Who prepare a table for GAD (44) And who furnish a drink offering for MENI (45).

The NKJV reads Gad and Meni and then footnotes the usual confusion I see with all these "scholarly" points of view. The NKJV had GAD - Footnote: Literally Troop or Fortune, a pagan deity. MENI - Footnote: Literally Number or Destiny, a pagan deity.

Well, the word "troop" also means a large company or many, and I don't know of any pagan deity names Troop. And the word "number" also can refer to a number or several false gods and pagan practices which are referred to in verses 3-7 of this same chapter.

The "scholars" offer us some 10 or more very different views and opinions about what this verse means or how it should be translated. What one affirms another denies. I'll stick with the KJB which makes perfect sense as it stands.

The word the KJB translates as "that TROOP" is # 1409 and is found only 2 times in the entire Hebrew Old Testament. It is the one we looked at earlier here in Genesis 30:11 where Leah says at the birth of Gad "A TROOP cometh: and she called his name Gad." The second time is here in Isaiah 65:11 "prepare a table for that TROOP".

The second word the KJB translates as "that NUMBER" is # 4507 and is found only 1 time in the entire Hebrew Old Testament.

Troop, Number, Fortune, Destiny, Gad, Meni, the Devil, Fortune tellers, bowls, Jupiter, the Planets?

Geneva Bible 1587 - "and haue prepared a table for THE MULTITUDE, and furnish the drinke offerings veto THE NUMBER."

Webster's Translation 1833 - "that prepare a table for that TROOP, and that furnish the drink-offering to that NUMBER."

The Great Bible 1540, Bishops' Bible 1568 - "ye haue set vp an aulter vnto JUPITER, and geuen riche drinke offeringes vnto THE PLANETS"

LXX, Complete Apostle's Bible 2005 - "prepare a table for THE DEVIL and fill the drink offering for FORTUNE.

Lamsa's translation of the Syriac - "who prepare tables for FORTUNE TELLERS, and have poured out wine INTO BOWLS FOR THEM."

The Compete Tanach - "who set a table for GAD and who fill mingled wine for a NUMBER."

The Jewish Virtual Library The Tanach [Full Text] 1994 -

“But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that TROOP, and that furnish the drink offering unto that NUMBER.”

https://members.webs.com/MembersB/EditPage/index.jsp?pageID=132368610

The Hebrew Transliteration Scriptures 2010 -

“But ye [are] they that forsake ADONAI (יהוה), that forget My kodesh mountain, that prepare a table for that TROOP, and that furnish the nesekh (drink offering) to that NUMBER.”

https://www.messianic-torah-truth-seeker.org/Scriptures/Tenakh/YeshaYahu/Yeshayahu65.htm

The King James Bible is not wrong. You just have to think about it to figure out what the passage is talking about. If you want to learn of the wide variety of interpretations of what is being referred to in this verse, see such commentaries as John Gill, Matthew Poole, Barnes and others who tell of some 10 wildly different views held by different scholars. Some think it speaks of Jupiter, or the planet Mercury, or Venus, the Moon or the Sun or a star or Ashteroth or the host of heaven or a multitude of idols in general.

Barnes’ Notes on the Bible. Even though he doesn’t like the KJB translation, yet he admits: “Much has been written on this place, and the views of the learned concerning Gad and Meni are very various and uncertain.” Several Bible commentators got it right.

Matthew Henry - "Here the different states of the godly and wicked, of the Jews who believed, and of those who persisted in unbelief, are set against one another. They prepared a table for THAT TROOP OF DEITIES which the heathen worship, and poured out drink-offerings to that countless NUMBER."

John Gill - "that prepare a table for that troop; or, "for a troop"; a troop of idols worshipped…And that furnish the drink offering unto that number: or, "to a number"; to a number of deities, which were as numerous as their cities.”

The Pulpit Commentary. Even though it differs from the KJB, yet their own explanation gives credit to why the KJB has it the way it does. "There is ground for believing that "Gad" was a Phoenician deity, perhaps "the god of good fortune" (Cheyne), though this is not clearly ascertained; sometimes worshipped as an aspect of Baal, whence the name, Baal-Gad sometimes connected with other deities, as Moloch and Ashtoreth." In other words "a TROOP of different deities"

Adam Clarke comments: "The disquisitions and conjectures of the learned concerning Gad and Meni are infinite and uncertain. “But why should we be solicitous about it?” says Schmidius. “It appears sufficiently, from the circumstances, that they were false gods; either stars, or some natural objects; or a mere fiction. The Holy Scriptures did not deign to explain more clearly what these objects of idolatrous worship were.”

Benson Commentary - "for that troop - A troop of idols, worshipped by the heathen”

John Wesley - "That troop - The idols of the ten tribes, and of the Assyrians, were a troop, where as the God of Israel was one God. Number - The multitude of their idols.”

And the Geneva Study Bible notes - "By the multitude and number he means their innumerable idols of whom they thought they could never have enough."

Todays "bibles" are getting worse, not better. Get yourself the King James Bible and stick to it. All others are poor substitutes. Friends don't let friends use fake bible versions.

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