Johannine Comma and Codex Ottobonianus - Revision history

Nick at 00:20, 3 June 2020

2020-06-03T00:20:28Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 00:20, 3 June 2020
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	:For three are the witness-bearing [from the heaven: father, word, and spirit holy, and the three into the one are. And three are the witness-bearing upon the earth] the spirit, the water, and the blood		:For three are the witness-bearing [from the heaven: father, word, and spirit holy, and the three into the one are. And three are the witness-bearing upon the earth] the spirit, the water, and the blood
		+

	{\|cellspacing=10 style="background-color:transparent;"		{\|cellspacing=10 style="background-color:transparent;"
-	:::::::: Comma Johanneum	+	:::::::: '''Comma Johanneum'''
	\|valign=top\|		\|valign=top\|
	::: Quia tres sunt		::: Quia tres sunt

Nick at 00:19, 3 June 2020

2020-06-03T00:19:43Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 00:19, 3 June 2020
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	==See Also==		==See Also==
		+	* [[Johannine Comma]]
		+	* [[Minuscule 629]]

	==External Links==		==External Links==
-		+	* ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]''

	{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}		{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}
	{{Donate}}		{{Donate}}

Nick at 00:17, 3 June 2020

2020-06-03T00:17:36Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 3 June 2020
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	: καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι καὶ		: καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι καὶ
	: τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες		: τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες
-	: ~~ἐπὶ~~ τῆς γῆς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ὕδωρ	+	: ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ὕδωρ
	: καὶ τὸ αἷμα, εἰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν.		: καὶ τὸ αἷμα, εἰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν.
	\|}		\|}

Nick: /* Oldest Greek Manuscript of the Comma */

2020-05-28T13:16:27Z

Oldest Greek Manuscript of the Comma

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:16, 28 May 2020
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	Greek:		Greek:
-	:7 ότι τρεις εισίν οι μαρτυρούντες [ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, πατὴρ, λόγος, καὶ πνεῦμα ἅγιον. καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι. 8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς] το πνεύμα, το ύδωρ, και το αίμα (omits, or rather transposes by substitution, καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι)	+	:<sup>7</sup> ότι τρεις εισίν οι μαρτυρούντες [ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, πατὴρ, λόγος, καὶ πνεῦμα ἅγιον. καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι. <sup>8</sup> καὶ τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς] το πνεύμα, το ύδωρ, και το αίμα (omits, or rather transposes by substitution, καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι)

	:For three are the witness-bearing [from the heaven: father, word, and spirit holy, and the three into the one are. And three are the witness-bearing upon the earth] the spirit, the water, and the blood		:For three are the witness-bearing [from the heaven: father, word, and spirit holy, and the three into the one are. And three are the witness-bearing upon the earth] the spirit, the water, and the blood

Nick: /* Elijah Hixson */

2020-05-28T13:13:14Z

Elijah Hixson

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:13, 28 May 2020
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	:In short, 629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript that has an unusual form of the CJ as a translation from Latin into Greek, probably (and this is purely my guess at this point) to harmonise the differences between the Latin and Greek columns. An interesting study would be for someone to compare these two columns in more detail to see if they appear to be harmonised.		:In short, 629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript that has an unusual form of the CJ as a translation from Latin into Greek, probably (and this is purely my guess at this point) to harmonise the differences between the Latin and Greek columns. An interesting study would be for someone to compare these two columns in more detail to see if they appear to be harmonised.
		+
		+	''"629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript"'' - It is strange that Hixson seems to think that manuscripts are either Protestant or ''Roman Catholic'', especially coming from someone whose institution would favor the recent Jesuit Carlo Martini editions of the critical text over the Textus Receptus. The UBS is entirely ecumenical.

	==See Also==		==See Also==

Nick: /* Elijah Hixson */

2020-05-25T03:19:28Z

Elijah Hixson

←Older revision		Revision as of 03:19, 25 May 2020
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	==Elijah Hixson==		==Elijah Hixson==
-	''See also [[~~Johannine Comma and Elijah Hixson\|~~Johannine_Comma_and_Elijah_Hixson#1._GA_629_.281362.E2.80.931363.29]]	+	''See also [[Johannine_Comma_and_Elijah_Hixson#1._GA_629_.281362.E2.80.931363.29\|Johannine Comma and Elijah Hixson]]
	In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:		In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:

Nick: /* Elijah Hixson */

2020-05-25T03:19:04Z

Elijah Hixson

←Older revision		Revision as of 03:19, 25 May 2020
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	==Elijah Hixson==		==Elijah Hixson==
		+	''See also [[Johannine Comma and Elijah Hixson\|Johannine_Comma_and_Elijah_Hixson#1._GA_629_.281362.E2.80.931363.29]]
	In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:		In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:

Nick: /* Elijah Hixson */

2020-05-25T03:17:08Z

Elijah Hixson

←Older revision		Revision as of 03:17, 25 May 2020
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	:In short, 629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript that has an unusual form of the CJ as a translation from Latin into Greek, probably (and this is purely my guess at this point) to harmonise the differences between the Latin and Greek columns. An interesting study would be for someone to compare these two columns in more detail to see if they appear to be harmonised.		:In short, 629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript that has an unusual form of the CJ as a translation from Latin into Greek, probably (and this is purely my guess at this point) to harmonise the differences between the Latin and Greek columns. An interesting study would be for someone to compare these two columns in more detail to see if they appear to be harmonised.
		+
		+	==See Also==
		+
		+	==External Links==


	{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}		{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}
	{{Donate}}		{{Donate}}

Nick at 03:16, 25 May 2020

2020-05-25T03:16:32Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 03:16, 25 May 2020
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	:While I haven’t yet figured out where 629 came from, there is a note on f. 2 that identifies it as being the property of “Joannis Angeli Ducis ab Altaemps”. This would be Giovanni Angelo D’Altemps, who, if that Italian Wikipedia article is correct, seems to have inherited at least part of his library from his grandfather, Cardinal Mark Sittich von Hohenems Altemps, who himself was the nephew of Pope Pius IV. Today, 629 is in the Vatican Library as Ottob. gr. 298. That is all to say that as much as I can tell about the original provenance of this manuscript (and the manuscript does pre-date its known owner by more than 200 years), by the time of later editions of the TR, it can be tied to a Roman Catholic family.		:While I haven’t yet figured out where 629 came from, there is a note on f. 2 that identifies it as being the property of “Joannis Angeli Ducis ab Altaemps”. This would be Giovanni Angelo D’Altemps, who, if that Italian Wikipedia article is correct, seems to have inherited at least part of his library from his grandfather, Cardinal Mark Sittich von Hohenems Altemps, who himself was the nephew of Pope Pius IV. Today, 629 is in the Vatican Library as Ottob. gr. 298. That is all to say that as much as I can tell about the original provenance of this manuscript (and the manuscript does pre-date its known owner by more than 200 years), by the time of later editions of the TR, it can be tied to a Roman Catholic family.
-	[[~~image~~:~~1 john 5~~.~~7 Codex Ottobonianus GA 629 Catholic~~.jpg\|thumb~~\|300px~~\|right\|GA 629, f. 2r]]	+	[[Image:Elijah Hixson ETC Article ms. 639.jpg\|150px\|thumb\|right\|GA 629, f. 105v, images at https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Ott.gr.298]]

	:629 is a Latin-Greek diglot, which should raise suspicions about its witness to the CJ. After all, the contention is that the CJ was translated into Greek from Latin and that’s how it ended up in a few Greek manuscripts, and that looks exactly like what happened here. Notice above that there are no definite articles in the three heavenly witnesses, but Latin does not have definite articles like Greek, so the lack of articles here in Greek suggests that it is a translation from Latin. Also note that this manuscript is not a witness to the form of the CJ as it appears in the TR. In fact, in these 23–25 words, I count 8 differences between the CJ here and the CJ as it appears in the Trinitarian Bible Society’s textus receptus (at least according to the TBT TR on Bibleworks). They are απο του ουρανου, απο της γης, the article(3x), the order of Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, οὗτοι in the TBT and εἰς τὸ in 629:		:629 is a Latin-Greek diglot, which should raise suspicions about its witness to the CJ. After all, the contention is that the CJ was translated into Greek from Latin and that’s how it ended up in a few Greek manuscripts, and that looks exactly like what happened here. Notice above that there are no definite articles in the three heavenly witnesses, but Latin does not have definite articles like Greek, so the lack of articles here in Greek suggests that it is a translation from Latin. Also note that this manuscript is not a witness to the form of the CJ as it appears in the TR. In fact, in these 23–25 words, I count 8 differences between the CJ here and the CJ as it appears in the Trinitarian Bible Society’s textus receptus (at least according to the TBT TR on Bibleworks). They are απο του ουρανου, απο της γης, the article(3x), the order of Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, οὗτοι in the TBT and εἰς τὸ in 629:

Nick at 03:13, 25 May 2020

2020-05-25T03:13:54Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 03:13, 25 May 2020
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	: καὶ τὸ αἷμα, εἰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν.		: καὶ τὸ αἷμα, εἰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν.
	\|}		\|}
-
-	~~==Elijah Hixson==~~
-	In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:
-
-	:629 is dated 1362–1363 and is the earliest known Greek manuscript of the CJ. There are earlier manuscripts, than 629 but in those, the CJ is still later, so, say in the year 1400, those manuscripts themselves existed but they did not have the CJ yet, where as in the year 1400, 629 did.
-
-	:While I haven’t yet figured out where 629 came from, there is a note on f. 2 that identifies it as being the property of “Joannis Angeli Ducis ab Altaemps”. This would be Giovanni Angelo D’Altemps, who, if that Italian Wikipedia article is correct, seems to have inherited at least part of his library from his grandfather, Cardinal Mark Sittich von Hohenems Altemps, who himself was the nephew of Pope Pius IV. Today, 629 is in the Vatican Library as Ottob. gr. 298. That is all to say that as much as I can tell about the original provenance of this manuscript (and the manuscript does pre-date its known owner by more than 200 years), by the time of later editions of the TR, it can be tied to a Roman Catholic family.
-
	{\|border=1 cellpadding=5 style="text-align:left; border-collapse: collapse;		{\|border=1 cellpadding=5 style="text-align:left; border-collapse: collapse;
	\|-		\|-
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	\|-		\|-
	\|}		\|}
		+
		+	==Elijah Hixson==
		+	In the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, January 07, 2020, ''[http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)]'' Hixson wrote:
		+
		+	:'''1. GA 629 (1362–1363)'''
		+	:629 is dated 1362–1363 and is the earliest known Greek manuscript of the CJ. There are earlier manuscripts, than 629 but in those, the CJ is still later, so, say in the year 1400, those manuscripts themselves existed but they did not have the CJ yet, where as in the year 1400, 629 did.
		+
		+	:While I haven’t yet figured out where 629 came from, there is a note on f. 2 that identifies it as being the property of “Joannis Angeli Ducis ab Altaemps”. This would be Giovanni Angelo D’Altemps, who, if that Italian Wikipedia article is correct, seems to have inherited at least part of his library from his grandfather, Cardinal Mark Sittich von Hohenems Altemps, who himself was the nephew of Pope Pius IV. Today, 629 is in the Vatican Library as Ottob. gr. 298. That is all to say that as much as I can tell about the original provenance of this manuscript (and the manuscript does pre-date its known owner by more than 200 years), by the time of later editions of the TR, it can be tied to a Roman Catholic family.
		+	[[image:1 john 5.7 Codex Ottobonianus GA 629 Catholic.jpg\|thumb\|300px\|right\|GA 629, f. 2r]]
		+
		+	:629 is a Latin-Greek diglot, which should raise suspicions about its witness to the CJ. After all, the contention is that the CJ was translated into Greek from Latin and that’s how it ended up in a few Greek manuscripts, and that looks exactly like what happened here. Notice above that there are no definite articles in the three heavenly witnesses, but Latin does not have definite articles like Greek, so the lack of articles here in Greek suggests that it is a translation from Latin. Also note that this manuscript is not a witness to the form of the CJ as it appears in the TR. In fact, in these 23–25 words, I count 8 differences between the CJ here and the CJ as it appears in the Trinitarian Bible Society’s textus receptus (at least according to the TBT TR on Bibleworks). They are απο του ουρανου, απο της γης, the article(3x), the order of Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον, οὗτοι in the TBT and εἰς τὸ in 629:
		+
		+	:TBT:
		+	:<u>ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ὁ</u> πατήρ <u>ὁ</u> λόγος καὶ <u>τὸ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα</u> καὶ <u>οὗτοι</u> οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι καὶ τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες <u>ἐν τῇ γῇ</u>
		+
		+	:629: <u>απο του ουρανου</u> πατήρ λόγος καὶ <u>Πνεῦμα Ἅγιον</u> καὶ οἱ τρεῖς <u>εἰς τὸ</u> ἕν εἰσιν καὶ τρεῖς εἰσὶν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες <u>απο της γης</u>
		+
		+	:In short, 629 appears to be a thoroughly Roman Catholic manuscript that has an unusual form of the CJ as a translation from Latin into Greek, probably (and this is purely my guess at this point) to harmonise the differences between the Latin and Greek columns. An interesting study would be for someone to compare these two columns in more detail to see if they appear to be harmonised.
		+

	{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}		{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}
	{{Donate}}		{{Donate}}