Johannine Comma and Athenagoras of Athens - Revision history

Nick at 10:55, 13 November 2025

2025-11-13T10:55:50Z

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	:ἄνθρωποι δὲ, τὸν μὲν ἐνταῦθα ὀλίγου καὶ μικροῦ τινος ἄξιον βίον λελογισμένοι, ὑπὸ μόνου δὲ παραπεμπόμενοι τούτου, ὃν ἴσως '''<u>Θεὸν καὶ τὸν παρ ̓ αὐτοῦ Λόγον</u>''' εἰδέναι, τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Παιδὸς πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα ἑνότης</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Πατρὸς πρὸς τὸν Υἱoν κοινωνία, τί τὸ Πνεῦμα</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τῶν τοσούτων ἕνωσις, καὶ διαίρεσις ἑνουμένων, τοῦ Πνεύματος, τοῦ Παιδὸς, τοῦ Πατρός·</u>'''(Migne Graeca, PG 9.913 [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA913&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false].)		:ἄνθρωποι δὲ, τὸν μὲν ἐνταῦθα ὀλίγου καὶ μικροῦ τινος ἄξιον βίον λελογισμένοι, ὑπὸ μόνου δὲ παραπεμπόμενοι τούτου, ὃν ἴσως '''<u>Θεὸν καὶ τὸν παρ ̓ αὐτοῦ Λόγον</u>''' εἰδέναι, τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Παιδὸς πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα ἑνότης</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Πατρὸς πρὸς τὸν Υἱoν κοινωνία, τί τὸ Πνεῦμα</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τῶν τοσούτων ἕνωσις, καὶ διαίρεσις ἑνουμένων, τοῦ Πνεύματος, τοῦ Παιδὸς, τοῦ Πατρός·</u>'''(Migne Graeca, PG 9.913 [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA913&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false].)
	Translated as:		Translated as:
	:while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know '''<u>God and His Logos</u>''', what is '''<u>the oneness of the Son with the Father</u>''', what '''<~~uthe~~ communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity</u>'''. [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]		:while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know '''<u>God and His Logos</u>''', what is '''<u>the oneness of the Son with the Father</u>''', what '''<u>the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity</u>'''. [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]

	==Notes==		==Notes==

Nick: /* Context */

2025-11-13T10:55:11Z

Context

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	The text says: “both their power '''<u>in union</u>''' and '''<u>their distinction in order</u>'''”. The Johannine structure itself implies relation but distinction. Father, Son, Spirit; Father, Word, Spirit. The combination of ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ with a statement of unity occurs nowhere in pagan philosophy — it’s uniquely Johannine/Christian.		The text says: “both their power '''<u>in union</u>''' and '''<u>their distinction in order</u>'''”. The Johannine structure itself implies relation but distinction. Father, Son, Spirit; Father, Word, Spirit. The combination of ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ with a statement of unity occurs nowhere in pagan philosophy — it’s uniquely Johannine/Christian.

			Chapter 12 says:
			:ἄνθρωποι δὲ, τὸν μὲν ἐνταῦθα ὀλίγου καὶ μικροῦ τινος ἄξιον βίον λελογισμένοι, ὑπὸ μόνου δὲ παραπεμπόμενοι τούτου, ὃν ἴσως '''<u>Θεὸν καὶ τὸν παρ ̓ αὐτοῦ Λόγον</u>''' εἰδέναι, τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Παιδὸς πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα ἑνότης</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τοῦ Πατρὸς πρὸς τὸν Υἱoν κοινωνία, τί τὸ Πνεῦμα</u>''', τίς ἡ '''<u>τῶν τοσούτων ἕνωσις, καὶ διαίρεσις ἑνουμένων, τοῦ Πνεύματος, τοῦ Παιδὸς, τοῦ Πατρός·</u>'''(Migne Graeca, PG 9.913 [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA913&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false].)
			Translated as:
			:while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know '''<u>God and His Logos</u>''', what is '''<u>the oneness of the Son with the Father</u>''', what '''<uthe communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity</u>'''. [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]

	==Notes==		==Notes==

Nick at 10:46, 13 November 2025

2025-11-13T10:46:44Z

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	Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in [[1 John 5:7]] (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”). The Text in Athenagoras is dated to 177 AD.		Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in [[1 John 5:7]] (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”). The Text in Athenagoras is dated to 177 AD.

	====Father, Word, Holy Spirit====		====God (in context Father), Word, Holy Spirit====

	:Ὡς γὰρ Θεόν φαμεν, καὶ Υἱὸν τὸν Λόγον αὐτοῦ, καὶ Πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ἑνούμενα μὲν κατὰ δύναμιν [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]		:Ὡς γὰρ Θεόν φαμεν, καὶ Υἱὸν τὸν Λόγον αὐτοῦ, καὶ Πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ἑνούμενα μὲν κατὰ δύναμιν [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]

Nick at 10:37, 13 November 2025

2025-11-13T10:37:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:37, 13 November 2025
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	:For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA945&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false]		:For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA945&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false]

	Earlier in context, he clearly speaks of the Father being God, and the Son being the Word. So in this context we read the distinct order of Father, Word, and Spirit: Θεόν (Father), Λόγον, Πνεῦμα ἅγιον.		Earlier in context (see notes below), he clearly speaks of the Father being God, and the Son being the Word. So in this context we read the distinct order of Father, Word, and Spirit: Θεόν (Father), Λόγον, Πνεῦμα ἅγιον.

	For, as we acknowledge a God (which means Father in context), and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence.		For, as we acknowledge a God (which means Father in context), and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence.
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	“For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son His Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence — the Father, the Son, the Spirit, because the Son is the Intelligence, Reason, Wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire;…” (Ibid. Chapter 24—Concerning Angels and Giants, Online version)		“For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son His Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence — the Father, the Son, the Spirit, because the Son is the Intelligence, Reason, Wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire;…” (Ibid. Chapter 24—Concerning Angels and Giants, Online version)

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Nick: /* References */

2025-11-13T10:36:12Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:36, 13 November 2025
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	The text says: “both their power '''<u>in union</u>''' and '''<u>their distinction in order</u>'''”. The Johannine structure itself implies relation but distinction. Father, Son, Spirit; Father, Word, Spirit. The combination of ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ with a statement of unity occurs nowhere in pagan philosophy — it’s uniquely Johannine/Christian.		The text says: “both their power '''<u>in union</u>''' and '''<u>their distinction in order</u>'''”. The Johannine structure itself implies relation but distinction. Father, Son, Spirit; Father, Word, Spirit. The combination of ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ with a statement of unity occurs nowhere in pagan philosophy — it’s uniquely Johannine/Christian.

	==~~References~~==		==Notes==
	Athenagoras of Athens (ca. AD 130-190) said:		Athenagoras of Athens (ca. AD 130-190) said:

Nick at 09:57, 13 November 2025

2025-11-13T09:57:37Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:57, 13 November 2025
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			[[image:Athenagoras of Athens Johannine Comma.jpg\|thumb\|300px\|right\|<small>An allusion to John 5.7 in Athenagoras of Athens]]
	Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in [[1 John 5:7]] (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”). The Text in Athenagoras is dated to 177 AD.		Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in [[1 John 5:7]] (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”). The Text in Athenagoras is dated to 177 AD.

Nick: New page: Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in 1 John 5:7 (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Gh...

2025-11-13T09:51:54Z

New page: Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in 1 John 5:7 (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Gh...

New page

Athenagoras’ words in ''Legatio pro Christianis 10'' very likely allude to the same triadic confession that is expressed fully in [[1 John 5:7]] (“the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”). The Text in Athenagoras is dated to 177 AD.

====Father, Word, Holy Spirit====

:Ὡς γὰρ Θεόν φαμεν, καὶ Υἱὸν τὸν Λόγον αὐτοῦ, καὶ Πνεῦμα ἅγιον, ἑνούμενα μὲν κατὰ δύναμιν [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]
Translated as:
:For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA945&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false]

Earlier in context, he clearly speaks of the Father being God, and the Son being the Word. So in this context we read the distinct order of Father, Word, and Spirit: Θεόν (Father), Λόγον, Πνεῦμα ἅγιον.

For, as we acknowledge a God (which means Father in context), and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence.

====United in Essence====
The concept of unity in ''ἑνούμενα μὲν κατὰ δύναμιν'' - (united in essence) matches the unity statement ''“καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι” (and these three are one) in 1 John 5:7.

====Context====

The text continues:

:Τίς οὖν οὐκ ἂν ἀπορήσαι, λέγοντας '''Θεὸν Πατέρα καὶ Υἱὸν Θεὸν καὶ Πνεῦμα ἅγιον''', δεικνύντας αὐτῶν καὶ τὴν ἐν τῇ ἐνώσει δύναμιν καὶ τὴν ἐν τῇ τάξει διαίρεσιν, ἀκούσας ἀθέους καλουμένους [http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0205.htm]
Translated as:
:Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of '''God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit''', and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Patrologiae_cursus_completus/NZLYAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA907&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false]

The text says: “both their power '''in union''' and '''their distinction in order'''”. The Johannine structure itself implies relation but distinction. Father, Son, Spirit; Father, Word, Spirit. The combination of ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ with a statement of unity occurs nowhere in pagan philosophy — it’s uniquely Johannine/Christian.

==References==
Athenagoras of Athens (ca. AD 130-190) said:

“That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable, by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being — I have sufficiently demonstrated. [I say His Logos], for we acknowledge also a Son of God. Nor let any one think it ridiculous that God should have a Son. For though the poets, in their fictions, represent the gods as no better than men, our mode of thinking is not the same as theirs, concerning either God the Father or the Son. But the Son of God is the Logos of the Father, in idea and in operation; for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made, the Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit, the understanding and reason (νοῦς καὶ λόγος) of the Father is the Son of God. But if, in your surpassing intelligence, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by the Son, I will state briefly that He is the first product of the Father, not as having been brought into existence (for from the beginning, God, who is the eternal mind [νοῦς], had the Logos in Himself, being from eternity instinct with Logos [λογικός]); but inasmuch as He came forth to be the idea and energizing power of all material things, which lay like a nature without attributes, and an inactive earth, the grosser particles being mixed up with the lighter. The prophetic Spirit also agrees with our statements. The Lord, it says, made me, the beginning of His ways to His works. Proverbs 8:22 The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists? Nor is our teaching in what relates to the divine nature confined to these points; but we recognise also a multitude of angels and ministers, whom God the Maker and Framer of the world distributed and appointed to their several posts by His Logos, to occupy themselves about the elements, and the heavens, and the world, and the things in it, and the goodly ordering of them all.” (Athenagoras, A Plea for Christians, Chapter 10—The Christians Worship the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, Online version)

“Are, then, those who consider life to be comprised in this, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die, and who regard death as a deep sleep and forgetfulness (sleep and death, twin brothers), to be accounted pious; while men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know God and His Logos [John 17:3], what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity;…” (Ibid. Chapter 12—Consequent Absurdity of the Charge of Atheism, Online version)

“For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son His Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence — the Father, the Son, the Spirit, because the Son is the Intelligence, Reason, Wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire;…” (Ibid. Chapter 24—Concerning Angels and Giants, Online version)